Eric Lam speaks – from China

73

Eric Lam Recounts 19 March 2010 China Time

Hi Bruceongames.com and readers,

This is Eric Lam writing. I specifically ask Bruce to let me write this piece of blog. Because I deem this action to be most beneficial for my own personal sake. I’d start by presenting a piece of 2-page statement that I wrote and handed over to the two Chinese policemen who visit my home yesterday. It was written in Chinese and I translated it in English. (I don’t have a scanner so I’d just type it out for now.)

Another note is that I verbally got the policemen’s consent to recount the things that happened yesterday to Bruce. However, it’s my own decision to write this blog on my own and to avoid any biased view from Bruce.

The way I got the policemen’s consent is by saying:

Lam: 我会将今天发生的事情，马上就告诉 Bruce，因为都是事实发生在我身上的。 (I’d tell everything that happened today to Bruce since that’s what happened.)

Policeman A: 你可以这样做. (You can do that.)

Policeman B: 这个是你的自由. (You have the freedom [to do so].)

Statement presented to the policemen are as follows:

标题: 声明书

本人林川在此声明并无主动地以任何方 法将本人拍摄之私人和公司照片通过任何直接或间接手段/方法给英国人blogger Bruce.

本人见到了 Bruce blog 上的林川的照片之后，才联络上的。

曾经谈论内容包含以下几点：

1. Evony 是否有木马？

2. Evony 是否有洗黑钱？

3. Evony LLC 公司是否有多过十个人工作。

本人林川的回应如下，对 Bruce 声明过的：

1. 技术上不可以，因为 Flash 有限能力；

2. 是否有洗黑钱，本人无能力回应；

3. 游戏本身不可能少过十个人搞和管理；但是，因为林川早已不在公司工作；Evony LLC 是林川离职之后才有的，所以本人林 川不知道具体情况。

林川在和 Bruce 联络上之后的目的，是未了请 Bruce 把林川是 Evony 的其中一个 Boss 的说法改正，因为林川不是 Boss。Bruce 最后相信了林川的话，吧林川的在 Blog 上的说法改了，说是 Manager ( 经理)。

林川答应用往常对此类问题的态度，继续对不产生好处的事情不会做，不会和非执法机构的人交流此事。

林川本人保证上述声明会在未来履行。

19/03/2010

林川 (盖手指章)

Statement presented to the policemen in English translation are as follows:

Title: Statement

I, Eric Lam, didn’t initiate any contact with UK blogger Bruce to hand him my personal photos in any direct or indirect way.

I, Eric Lam, saw Bruce’s blog with my pictures, and then I contacted Bruce.

We talked about the following things [Bruce asked me the following questions]:

1. Does Evony has trojan?

2. Is Evony money laundering?

3. Does Evony LLC has more than 10 workers?

My responses to the questions above were:

1. Technically impossible. Flash has its limitation.

2. I am incapable of answering that. [Meaning I didn’t know and I would have had no way of knowing.]

3. There’s no way the game can operate with less than 10 persons. [personal opinion] But I am incapable of knowing since I left the company way before Evony LLC was heard. [fact] And I have no way of knowing how the company’s structured. [fact]

Lam initiated the contact after seeing his own personal photos were published on Bruce’s blog. The purpose of the contact was to correct Bruce’s incorrect statement about Lam being the boss of Evony. I was not the boss. I was [one of] the manager[s] in the company. Bruce changed it agreeably after believing what I said to him.

I agreed to behave as I have always been acting, that is, not to do anything unbeneficial to myself, and not to communicate anything of relating to Evony to anyone else other than law enforcement agencies [with exception of this since I got their consent to recount what happened on 19th March 2010 to Bruce].

Eric Lam promises to honor the above statement in the future.

19/03/2010

Eric Lam (signed and finger printed)

Recounting what happened on 19th March 2010 are as follows:

I write in my first person point of view and try my best to be as objective as possible. I present only the facts and also my personal feelings without passing judgments to the others.

On Friday 19th March 2010, around 11am, my home’s door bell rang. I just got up from my bed because I worked late into the night the day before. The hallway was dark because the light was out. I couldn’t see who’s who through the door viewer. One of the men asked for Eric Lam.

I opened the inner wooden door try to get a clearer view through the outer steel gate which is covered in metal mosquitos’ fence. And the men asked for Eric Lam again. At one time, I thought I saw a familiar face who I thought was my former employer’s personal driver at the far back. I said to him: “Hey. Do I know you at the back?” But he moved away from my sight immediately, so I still couldn’t see who’s who so I decided to shut the door.

I panicked. (Due to a few reasons which I’d prefer not to disclose for my own benefit.)

I looked and I knew that my wife and two daughters were out. I instinctively thought that they might be in danger so I looked everywhere for a phone to call them. But I just couldn’t found my phone due to my dizziness in the morning.

I heard the men outside claiming that they’re from the Qingdao [a city in Shandong province] police force. I guess I knew by then that that has something to do with one of the three things that have to do with my former employer. But first, I must first find out if they’re true policemen since there has been quite a few incidences of fake polices entering the house in the news.

While I was still looking for my phone to call 911 or someone to verify, I heard my wife and kids’ voice at door.

I wasn’t sure what to do but I acted on instinct to open door and try to let them in first.

I opened the door. Three men, my wife, my 2-year old and 1 year old daughters were at door.

I dragged my one year old daughter’s cart in first, and then trying to drag the other two in.

There was no time to explain to them what’s on my mind. I thought to myself.

I tried to shut the door right after but two men started yelling and pull my arms. I told them that I have to find out if they’re real police or not first but one of them stuck his feet in the outer door and slipped in the doorway and said that he’d prefer the door being open that way. I didn’t think that was a good sign at all so I acted on instinct again and I forcefully pushed him away from the door and try to close the outer gate again. But two of them came forth together with one keeping the door open while the other dragging my arm preventing me from having further movement.

My two kids seemed to have sensed hostility and danger and started crying seeing what they’re seeing while my wife yelling at them saying if you’re true policemen why were you consider less about the safety of the children while having a fight here at door. One of the policemen replied in Chinese: “就是冲着这样来的，怎么啦！” (Literally, “We came here for this. What then!” My wife’s personal understanding of what he said is that they’re here to make a scene at my home just so that the children can see it all.)

During the pulling and pushing, my lower end of my right hand sleeve was torn off.

And while I was prevented from further movement, I held them back from entering. I shouted to my wife to call the police and to call 911 (but in fact the Chinese police emergency phone number was 110 so I guess no one could have understood what I meant by saying to call 911).

When they saw my wife picked up the phone and started calling, they started to loose their grip on me and move away from the door. They said it’s better this way and let’s wait till the local police arrive. I closed the doors. They waited outside the doorway.

A uniformed police and a security guard of my apartment complex arrived. I recognized the security guard so I let them all in.

First, I had to clear my residence permit registration formalities with the local policeman (ID025242 with driver batch A3546). For I’m a foreign citizen, I was obligated to report to the local police station where I lived with the apartment owner’s IDs. However, my landlord was a busy man so he hadn’t been available for running the errands with me.

Once that’s cleared, 025242 calls up his superior for the Qingdao policemen’s clearance to conduct their business here. They are, after all, cleared of conducting investigation here. 025242 and I asked for their authorized investigation paperwork and they couldn’t provide any. But we believed they’re true policemen nonetheless.

Because I was in such an emotional state, I asked for a few hours to prepare myself before conducting any further communication. Both 025242 and the two policemen suggested me otherwise. They wanted me right away. I didn’t felt alright about that. If that was not an arrest, what right do they have to ask for my immediate assistance? I asked them what’s that all about? What’s the purpose of the investigation? If not allowed to tell me, I asked if they could at least tell me the nature of the investigation. One of the Qingdao police waved a heavy stake of paper wrapped in transparent plastic holder claiming that’s what he’s about to talk to me.

I asked him if he can show me that. He said that I’d know when I talked to them. He held it up high and claimed that it contained important evidence that’s related to me. I asked him if that’s related to me, why I couldn‘t see them. Or couldn’t he tell me what that is all about?

They continued to refuse my request for freshening up (as I was just out of bed) and my request for preliminary information with regard to their investigation. The back and forth dialogue, which was going nowhere, lasted a few minutes.

But I stood my ground for asking for a few hours before conducting the interview and 025242 went outside again and assumingly talked to his superior again for advice. He came back and talked to the other policemen about me and they told me that we could all meet later. I promised them that I won’t take long and I’d meet them at the local police station to talk. It’s just around the corner of my apartment block.

Once I saw them out and regained my composure. I made calls to Canadian Consulate General and Hong Kong Economic and Trade Office in Guangdong. They were extremely helpful. Their representatives provided extensive legal advises and promised me that they have legal counsel standing by to help me out if in need. They can help me deal with the law enforcement in China on behalf of me. They advise me that I have the right to know the preliminary of the investigation before responding to anything. With my right told, I conjured up my courage to make a call to the local police station.

Unfortunately, the head of the local police office was out to lunch. The lady at the police office asked me to call back at a quarter to three.

I didn’t want to get the Qingdao policemen to wait for too long. But I failed to get the Qingdao policemen’s phone number before they left. I went downstairs to see if they’re still around my apartment complex. But instead, downstairs, I saw the driver of my former employer. It was really him that I had seen back there. I thought to myself.

I waved at him who was sitting outside my apartment building‘s gate and asked him to help me call the Qingdao policemen back.

A moment later, I saw them coming back with a security guard of my former employer. The security guard was a former military soldier in Northern China, as I was told once by Consultant Ma when I was still with the company back in March 2009. “Oh, we meet again.” I smiled at him and thought to myself. (He’s a friendly enough fellow who paid for my drink and snacks during the rest of the long hours of interview by the policemen. He also escorted me to the washroom and waited outside whenever I was out of the sight of the policemen. He’s a very responsible young man.)

I gather the two policemen around and they dismissed the driver and the security guards. I told them whom I’d called and what right I had in China. I insisted and demanded to knew the preliminary first.

They didn’t refuse though failed to acknowledge but I thought I planned to make them feel at ease first. I told them that there were three things that was relating to my former employer. They’re issue A, B, and C. (I will omit A and B intentionally for my own benefit and very probably for my former employer’s benefit as well.)

I tried to show my good will by telling the Qingdao policemen the following.

I watched police movies a lot and once wanted to be a police myself and even applied to become a Commissioner of Police in Hongkong passing two rounds of interview before I decided to come back to China for my career and to explore business opportunity. I hoped they could understand my respect for their line of duty, my willingness to cooperate and I was sure they weren’t intended to make a scene back there. (I thought to myself that it was just unprofessional police academy training, at most. The ugly scene could have been prevented simply by bringing my apartment complex security guard along when they rang my door bell. I could have saved my shirt, to say the least, if not frightened my wife, kids, and the neighbor. Right. Beside writing this piece tonight, I had spent my day talking to the neighbors about, oddly, my financial stability. All of them started to gossip about this already thinking that it was some mafia loan shark who wanted to get a piece of me for they could hardly believe those were the act of policemen. But I told them it was just misunderstanding. Apparently, the last thing I wanted to do is to express my own fear and alarm them further.)

For issue A: I thought it was over and I doubt if it’s anything to do with it. But I’m preparing to get it over with nonetheless because I didn’t do anything wrong. It was merely an unfortunately misunderstanding if anything. (Sorry readers for being cryptic. But just bear with me till issue C.)

For issue B: I thought I had an agreement indirectly with someone through a personal assistant that I shouldn’t be talking to them anymore as if “I’ve never known them.” (Sorry again for being cryptic here. It’s just for my own good.)

For issue C: Apparently, I couldn’t pretend that I didn’t know anything about Bruce’s blog. So if that’s what it was all about, I’m more than willing to talk about it to the best of my knowledge. The only reason preventing me from contacting the right persons to talk about issue C was due to issue B’s promise. So, I’m glad to talk to a third party, especially law enforcement.

I played my part to be more than open to clear the air and the police signaled that what he’s holding in his hand was all about Bruce’s blog.

I signed with relieve and divulged what I knew about Bruce and the blog. Apart from the statement that I wrote above, which was all true and was not forced upon to write (if you readers have speculated). I told them a lot more about what had happened in details so that they could feel surer about my statement being true. We sat in the apartment complex playground for a long time and they listen and sometimes barge in with dissatisfaction of what I said while they couldn’t be clear of what they wanted to ask for obvious reasons: that’s how policemen were trained to talk to suspects. They cannot let the suspect know what they know or don’t know while they want to know as much and ask as many relevant questions as they could. So the back and forth dialogue went longer than it could have been due to the nature of the conversation. Eventually, after much misunderstanding and even yelling at times due to frustration on both sides, they said they’re temporarily satisfied with my side of the story and went over to my apartment complex’s security room to get a written statements.

The official written statement contains more information than the above statement. The official statement was supposedly to be read by the police authority only. They requested me to write the above statement on my own. I thought it must be for someone else’s eyes then. To whom I have no way of knowing who would eventually read it. But I’d hope it can reach the right person. But just in case it couldn’t, I’m hoping by posting here, the content of my hand written statement can have a chance to meet his/her eyes.

I felt that I was one the key suspects of providing information to Bruce. I felt that there was no way of denying the facts that the photos were mine. So I was very clear about how all it went. What I said to the policemen went most unrecorded due to technicality, which I thought the policemen were not internet savvy enough to understand what I told them but were too shy to admit.

I knew Bruce’s attack on Evony all alone. But it was really none of my business because I left the company for a long time. There’s hundreds and thousands of Eric Lam out there and for the obvious speculative nature of those claims were, I didn’t think it was worth my time to act upon it. Besides, the rumors out there got many of my facts wrong. (For example, I corrected Bruce yesterday, again, that I wasn’t living in Canada. I’ve been living mostly in China since 2005.) And most importantly of all, issue B is at stake and I was obligated on two ends not to talk about this (sorry for being cryptic). But I became acutely aware of Bruce’s blog once my personal photos were up. After two to three blogs were out containing my photos, I decided to reach out to Bruce to correct one perhaps minute to many others but fairly substantial claims against me.

I was not the owner of Evony.

That’s it.

It’s affecting my life and work on many ends so I had to stopped it.

I would have been honored and glad if I was really one of the owners simply because it was the first game that’s been created by Chinese and gone out to make it big in the English-speaking audience market. But unfortunately, I wasn’t the owner. And it was really getting on my nerve from too many ends. I had to stop the source from continuing spread the untrue info that’s affecting my life.

I still don’t know how Bruce got a hold of my photos and I didn’t bother to ask neither because they would have been publicly available online as they were sent to many of my co-workers in the company. I was THE photographer and I advocated company life on my photo blog. Hundreds and hundreds of workers come-and-gone could have tipped off Bruce about the whereabouts of the photos. Or it could simply been have Bruce’s own might in power searching through Google.

If you Google eric lam <a rather popular online photo gallery>, my photo gallery result comes up first. (That’s the part I thought the policemen failed to grasp what I said.)

I wouldn’t have trusted Bruce even he told me the way he got the photos so I didn’t bother to ask. It was simply my mistake to have not locked that part of the photo gallery sooner. I thought Bruce’s blog writing was AdSense ad driven. I thought he was driven by greed for readership and AdSense income.

And you bet. I was a greedy person and so I assumed everyone else’s so.

I did everything for the benefit of profiting for myself. I have stopped donating and volunteering for a long time. And I have stopped doing things that’s unbeneficial to my ends for a long time. And I’ve stopped doing all random act of kindness that I used to do except giving a few dollars to the wondering singers and performers on the streets.

The last thing I wanted to do is to provide petty information to Bruce’s blog for fighting so-called justice in his eyes.

I asked Bruce how much he got for the AdSense, he said it’s petty money that could hardly cover his monthly utility bill. So I thought to myself what an idealistic and unworldly man he was, fighting for justice of the public with flimsy information. (Of course, I didn’t tell him that in his face since I care less about others’ dealing as long as my life’s not at stake.)

Besides, half of my life was in the east and other half been in the west. I think it’s just a joke what Bruce was writing about. It wouldn’t have been so much an issue in China anyway even if they’re true.

Now, I know you’re happy now knowing the Eric Lam guy is as bad as you might have imagined. But I really don’t care as long as you’re not in my life.

The truth is: my neighbors and the Shandong policemen are in my life. Someone will continue to exist in my life no matter what, simply because he/she thought I knew too much. They’re all part of my life. They’re as much as my wife and kids are in my life.

So **** you, Bruce, and all the other rumors and info tippers (if you’re even really reading this at all…), as well as you, supporters and other commenters/readers of Bruce’s blog.

You don’t care what’s happening to me as much as I don’t care half about what’s happening to you. So now you know what’s happening to me and please show yourself and at least stand up like a man like Bruce. Show yourselves so that I don’t become the fall guy who got his sleeve torn off right after getting out of my bed, and so that I don’t become the man who forever feeling regretful of not able to protect my baby girls enough from imprinting their fragile hearts with the ugly scene.

Last but not least, **** myself for not being able to add a password on the photo gallery sooner. Or better yet, might as well ****ed my photography hobby.

For the sake of me, I specifically ask Bruce to pull off the latest blog about the things that happened on 19th that god knows who tipped him off. I decided to write this accord on my own and let you all know that I’m a real person and I’m in real trouble. So spare me your endless analysis of the latest evony gossips and freedom of speech point of view. Get a life and even play some evony for god sake.

I will continue to fight for my own peace if you anyone out there decide that you have more to say to me, I suggest you to email me at eric@clickbankcsv.com where my own business endeavor is undergoing besides consulting for a few game companies on a part-time basis.

Or better yet, subscribe to my service at ClickBank Products Data CSV at http://www.clickbankcsv.com . I’d always be glad to chat with my customers. My men at ClickbankCSV will greet you with nice things to say. Just leave them your phone number, and contact methods, and I’d get back to you right away during my waking hours.

Eric Lam

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73 Comments


  1. Well done Bruce, looks like you had a man harassed by the police in front of his young family. Are you proud of yourself?


  2. I beg your pardon xbendystevex?

    What David Guo or the chinese police does won’t fall back on Bruce, who is merely speaking his mind and getting to the bottom of all this mess.


  3. xbendystevex is being ridiculous. We should all give the corrupt chinese police and the people they’re working for whatever they want because they’ll resort to violence if they don’t get their way? That attitude is part of why china is a brutal authoritarian dictatorship.

    Really, calling thugs for hire “police” is giving them far more credit than they deserve. They don’t enforce the law, they enforce the power of the already powerful, with violence.


  4. Of course how silly of me! The fact that Eric Lam was told that he was questioned because of Bruce’s blog obviously mean that er… it had nothing to do with Bruce. Excellent logic there Roger, a gold star for you.

    Oh and CommonSense, perhaps you’d be so kind to point out where I said anyone should ever give anything to the police? Ooooooh no that’s right you can’t can you? Unlucky.

    I wonder how Bruce would feel if his private life was aired in public again? Not great I’d imagine, so quite why he feels it’s ok to do similar to these people is beyond me.


  5. xbendystevex, you dont make any sense. Would you rather have Bruce back down from this ridiculus lawsuit in Australia and not do the outmost of what he can to defend himself? He is only one man with an entire corporation, law firm and chinese legalsystem against him!

    I dont think Bruce would mind having his private life aired if that in doing so got the truth out.
    Have you been following the Evony, Civony and wowmine story?
    Have you seen their advertisement?
    Have you seen their copying of numerous other games ideas, ingame content and mechanics?
    Have you witnessed their lies and attemts of coverup? Have you seen Evony’s lousy customer support and extreme moderation in their forum?

    Try to even mention any of this to evony (try the forum) and you instantly get banned and the post deleted, Evony are afraid of the truth and discussions about all this.

    If its true that this is the first mayor chinese ‘successfull’ game to hit the west, please let it be the first and last. Evony, in my eyes, actually succeeded at one thing: the most rotten online game of all time.

    To me, you come of as an Evony henchman or supporter.


  6. “Get a life and even play some evony for god sake.”

    These are two mutually exclusive endeavors.

    This entire statement appears to violate China’s own law prohibiting witness testimony for an overseas trial; the only exception being a special travel permit to Hong Kong and an additional special permit to testify.China does not permit the taking of depositions or witness statements (even from willing witnesses) in China for a case pending overseas. However, such depositions and witness statements may be taken in Hong Kong.

    http://www.eapdlaw.com/newsstand/detail.aspx?news=1524


  7. All this shows is just how nasty this David Guo bloke is and validates Bruce’s stance against Evony and David Guo.


  8. @xbendystevex

    Freedom of speech is one of the highest values in western society – for a good reason. Without it, such things as happen in China can happen WITHOUT ANYONE NOTICING.


  9. Man, that’s a tough read. I don’t think I made it through even a quarter of it before I had to quit trying. It was making my brain hurt.

    And yes, I do understand English is probably his second or third language. Just pointing out that the audience the statement is geared to will find it extremely difficult to receive the message.


  10. @Roger It’s not difficult to understand. Everiss has brought Evony’s actions against him on himself. Eric Lam has at no point asked for his personal circumstances, photos and rumours about him to be published.

    Your list of ‘justifications’ is utterly absurd. Evony have quite annoying ads! So that definitely justifies ignoring any libel or privacy law to personally attack anyone connected to them. This whole affair seems to have unearthed a lot of armchair lawyers who seem to genuinely believe that libel cannot exist in any circumstances.


  11. Posting pictures of someone else’s family on the internet without permission = pure evil.

    Regardless of how annoying their company’s internet ads are. (Hint: get an adblocker).


  12. Hi Bruce,

    This is all I am going to say about this, and I want to direct this personally to you.

    Are you proud of yourself?

    B


  13. Why has Evony been BANNED by credit card companies and now also Pay pal ? [please fact check this]

    Evony = Bad code + dishonest ripoff business plan + misleading dishonest bulletin board + internet sex ad + goon squad legal team + goon squad Bloggers + fascist mentality + hidden location + internet fraud+libel tourists.

    Who controls and where is Regan Merc.?

    I believe the company has perfected “reverse customer service.” On Evony’s Web site Evony reps direct people to email an email address that NEVER RESPONDS TO CUSTOMERS. It’s a black hole. They tell you to wait and wait. I waited TWO MONTHS before I initiated charge backs.

    They have “no location” that the Better Business Bureau in at least 18 different complaints.

    These Evony people are giving the many honest businesses in China run my good people a bad name.

    To hell with Evony!


  14. spelling error> “run my good people” should be run BY good people

    insert word “notes” after Better Business Bureau

    Thnx Bruce, good luck down under!


  15. Crumbs.

    But those who would blame Bruce for what has happened are wrong. He has simply held a magnifying glass up to the way these people conduct their business and their lives. He’s no more personally accountable for this event than the average American or Brit is for, say, a missile accidentally killing civilians in Afghanistan.

    @xbendystevex and @Brian Beuken are idiots who should restrict themselves to commenting over at the Daily Mail.


  16. The blame for what is happening here lies 100% with the owners of Evony. It is they who have lied and then who have misused Western legal systems and violence in China to try and hide those lies.


  17. For anyone wondering about the picture on this article, Eric selected and supplied it himself.


  18. @Mike

    I know Brian Beuken of old and your description of him is pretty accurate.


  19. It is deeply ironic that the police are using bringing China into disrepute as the basis for their action.
    The owners of Evony, by their actions, are the ones who dishonour China.


  20. I’m with Bruce on this one. All he did was show exactly who’s responsible for the ridiculous lawsuit in Australia and now the hearing in Britain (how did that go BTW?). A man whose credibility is unjustly attacked by a bunch of (formerly faceless) Chinese individuals has every right to defend himself and expose the accusers in turns.

    Yes, Bruce might have gotten a few folks over in China in trouble with the police. And IMHO, they deserve what’s coming to them. They (Eric Lam, and others) should have really thought of the risk they put their families or whatever at before pulling the kind of crap they did. Just my two cents.


  21. “For anyone wondering about the picture on this article, Eric selected and supplied it himself.”

    Thanks for making that clear, I wondered for a second if your morals had gotten bad after all of this happening. Children and innocents should be completely separated from this public mess.

    Keep fighting Bruce!


  22. Dear everyone who has failed at reading comprehension,

    Eric Lam says you lose!

    “I played my part to be more than open to clear the air and the police signaled that what he’s holding in his hand was all about Bruce’s blog.”

    So that will be a POLICEMAN questioning ERIC LAM because of BRUCE’S BLOG.

    Phew. You guys are lucky I’m here to point out the blindingly obvious to you.

    Oh and Roger, that lovely little list you cooked up? I appreciate the effort, really I do. The only problem is that nothing on it is illegal (with the possible exception of Evony’s alleged copying of ‘numerous game ideas…’ but even that is between Evony and the other party). So remind me, what was the point you were groping for when you put that little ol’ list together?

    Bruce should stop throwing his toys out of his pram whenever people spam his comments section. Oh and not libeling them would probably help too. If he did that, perhaps he’d be able to keep his house!

    Though from the looks of it on Google Street View it’s not going to be worth much.


  23. Who are you?

    Come clean xbendystevex!

    Tell us which Moderator or Evony LLC employee/rep or Evony sycophant you actually are.

    Dawnseeker / nathan.seltzer? Some other one?

    How much do they pay you to perpetuate this ongoing international criminal fraud racket?

    WTB a international warrant to toss some of what appears to be a multinational fraud ring into a federal prison cell!


  24. Eric says you lose? LOSE? Care to explain what you mean?
    Policeman asked Eric about this blog, so what? In my country I would find it disturbing if the police came knocking on my door, just because I was mentioned in a blog. Oh, wait…so its Bruce’s fault Eric was harassed by the Chinese police?

    You dont make any sense and soon I’ll start to ignore you completely. The list I quickly scetched together was to sum up some of the things Evony has done and to describe why Evony disguists me. Later Bruce started to blog about it and this whole circus began.

    You strike me as a sad, negative little man, either without morals or working for Evony. Thats not mutually exclusive.


  25. Hmm, I really think this xbendystevex really is David Guo or someone high up in Evony. His grasp on English is okay at best, and I’ve seen this guy go under other variations of steve on this blog. Not Steve A though, he’s legit as far as I know.

    Evony must die. M’kay?


  26. SteveA. I don’t work for Evony. Got nothing to do with them, though I did find the adverts funny. IF what Bruce says is true then they are a pretty rum lot, but until he produces concrete proof they are bound to sue him for libel. I hope for his sake he’s got some to produce in court that is of a higher calibre than the things he’s posted here. His vendetta against David Guo on here hasn’t helped him at all. And you might want to stop saying that Evony “perpetuate this ongoing international criminal fraud racket […]”. You’ve seen they like to sue.

    Bruce loves to talk about reputation management, but only when it applies to him seemingly. Again, I hope for his sake that he’s got something outstanding that will come to light in court, not the sort of thing he’s been posting from his ‘sources’.

    Roger. Woe is me, you might ignore me? Oh noes! I can see I was being optimistic when I expected you to be able to do reading comprehension if you’ve only just understood the simple point that the person who wrote this blog entry was questioned because of Bruce’s blog. Look, he says so, up there. I even pasted it in my last reply so you wouldn’t have to hurt your poor eyes. Go on, go and read it. The interweb will wait for you.

    You’ll note that Bruce himself hasn’t disputed that fact, all he’s tried to do is spin yet another wildly odd and slightly boggle-eyed story about the Chinese, which still has a whiff of old colonial racism about it.

    So there you have it. No doubt you’ll be being too virtuous with all those morals you posses, and I clearly don’t, to reply to this. In fact, just reading it has probably offended you somehow. I’m off now to eat babies, on account of being a sad little man. Hell Yeah!


  27. Bruce, you’re a deluded lunatic. Why aren’t you going after Farmville? Or million other games like Evony.

    Other than the annoying ad campaign (which is perfectly legal), you managed to prove nothing against them. Which is why you had to settle out of court. I hope you’ll keep on babbling like a madman and eventually be brought down like the bug you are. Hopefully without hurting more innocents like Eric and his family on the way.


  28. Whoa! Move over Poirot, SmaMan is in da house! His conclusive proof that I really am “David Guo or someone high up in Evony” is that he thinks my grasp of English is ok at best (one of the more bizarre assertions I’ve come across, but no matter) and, most stunningly, he’s seen other people using the common name ‘steve’ as part of a username on this blog! You sir, are a genius.*

    I especially like the way that you know SteveA is legit, presumably because he agrees with you rather than any other kind of, you know, actual proof.

    *no wait, the opposite. Moron. You sir, are a moron.


  29. @xbendystevex:
    If Eric Lam was questioned by the police simply because he was on Bruce’s blog it then it means that the chinese law system works in a mysterious way or that David Guo had something to do with it. I can read ‘comprehension’ as you call it so dont get smart with me. Your assessment that this falls back on Bruce is strange and your negativity stinks. I actually feel sorry for you but you remind me that there are stupid and ignorant people out there.

    @Mookles
    Bruce began his blogging with merely asking questions and pointing out the obvious. Evony sued him and others for this, as they did’nt want any negative publicity. Basiclly they dont want anyone asking the right questions.
    Who not write about Farmwille and the other thousand games like evony? Thats an easy answer: no other game has behaved like evony or responed to critizism like evony has.
    Bruce stated that he had to settle out of court in England, because he could’nt afford legal representation, not because he was legally wrong. Please be civil here and use facts.
    I have a question for you: why did evony panic only days prior to the trial in Australia, the last time?


  30. Roger,

    “I can read ‘comprehension’ as you call it so dont get smart with me.”

    I’m sorry but this truly is the funniest thing I’ve read for a long time.

    Please, if English isn’t your first language, accept my apologies though, I’m not interested in making fun of people because of something like that. So like I say, if English isn’t your first language, I’m sorry. We disagree about Bruce, but I’ll leave things here.

    However..

    If it IS your first language…. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.


  31. I wrote it like that to point out that you constantly used that term, to bluntly point out that only you can understand Eric’s statement and then you blame it on Bruce. I wont try to explain it further, I dont think you are willing to listen.
    No, english is not my first language so you can stop laughing now and try to understand all this a bit better.

    If you have followed the evony saga at this blog as long as I have and even read some at evony’s forum then I dont think you would come to the same conclusion.


  32. Ad hominem arguments basically mean that the arguer has run out of things to say, and is reduced to personally insulting the opposition. Frankly, if you (xbendystevex) have nothing better to say than ‘HA HA HA HA’, then please keep your comments to yourself. Thank you.

    Regarding Eric Lam’s letter, I feel that his dialogue is a bit too detailed for my liking. The real point of his letter is a lament over his own misfortune, and a request for the removal of his pictures. Therefore, why would he bother including such meticulous detail?

    Personally, if I were Bruce, I would reply by describing my own situation, and explain why I had needed to mention him in my blog.. An apology would be nice, too.


  33. xBendystevex , warns me :

    “And you might want to stop saying that Evony “perpetuate this ongoing international criminal fraud racket […]“. You’ve seen they like to sue.”

    I see you left out the two words proceeding the quote which were “appears to” so the correct quote is “appears to perpetuate this ongoing international criminal fraud racket.” Please quote correctly.

    Oh my g-d some unnamed person who is afraid to reveal who he is or what his association with Evony is just threatened that Evony might sue me!?! Take a ticket and stand in line! Hang on a sec there is a knock on my door…OH NO IT’S THE EVONY MAFIA!

    Before you people at Evony come to America to perpetrate bad acts you would do well to consider that in America not only do we have the 1st amendment to the constitution;

    WE ALSO HAVE THE 2nd AMENDMENT!


  34. Quoting correctly; If xbendystevex was referring to the post where I asked him a question that he evaded; I was asking a question not stating a fact. My question was>

    “How much do they pay you to perpetuate this ongoing international criminal fraud racket?”

    You left out the part of my post which makes it a question>

    “How much do they pay you to”

    So….Who is paying you? How much?

    I have seen a few Evony mods that put a “x” before and after their screen names.

    You are one of them? Or just a sycophant?


  35. @xbendystevex
    Alright, I admit I may have taken things a little too far with that accusation. Still, I’m outraged at how you see this story of Eric Lam getting beat up by the bribed police officers as being Bruce’s fault, and then you spit in his face about it in a sort of “Are you happy now?!” kind of way.
    It just seems like only David Guo would see the situation like this. All this whole damn situation is about is that Evony can’t take criticism! They’re making a mountain, no, Mount Everest out of a molehill in sending hired goons to beat up someone like this. And to put it lightly, it makes me mad.

    On a side note, I will say that your English is a whole lot better than most people I’ve seen online who speak it.


  37. This is a tough one – if what he says is true, I feel kind of bad for Eric Lam. Again, if what he says is true it proves just how dangerous it can be to rely on information from “sources” that you cannot credit. By the same standards, Eric Lam could also be bending the truth (or it could be one of the other thousands of Eric Lams :D)

    And to be fair, with our views of China from the “outside”, posting about individuals, it should have been a consideration that action may be taken against those who may in some way be connected with speaking ill of China/the Chinese Government.

    However, the Chinese authorities don’t really help this at all. I get the impression that Eric Lam wasn’t too impressed with how the police initially handled the situation, and I personally think everything that happened to him is wholely unfair.

    And not only the authorities, but Evony itself. This is essentially what all of this is about and I have to wonder, why have they been silent about all of this for so long? Eric Lam (I am just going to assume its true because its the most ive seen anyone involved in this whole Evony affair write, who isn’t Bruce) took the time to tell his story, so what about Evony? Small things like numbers of employees or who owns the company and bigger things like data mining or trojans could be cleared up by Evony themselves. Instead, their entire strategy has been oppression, which seems like they do have something to hide.

    And I find it terrible that they may be also behind what happened to Eric Lam. Whether or not Bruce could have avoided it somewhat isn’t really the issue – it is about the reaction of Evony and the Chinese authorities. If I find a picture of a Chinese person on the internet, with any details of them, and post on a blog that they are anti-government activists, I would not be surprised if they were then hunted down and “questioned”. Sure, they would be mad at me, and I can see why, but how is it fair that somebody can just do that and the authorities will let them?

    What would have happened to Eric Lam if the police did not believe him? What about other people mentioned who have not spoken out, have they failed to convince police of their innocence? We would never even find out, if that was the case.

    So, to finish – im surprised by this article and I sympathise with Eric Lam and his frustration towards Bruce. I think, however, that Bruce is not the real cause of all of this – any other bloggers, (ex)Evony employees or customers could gave found information available through the internet.

    I hope Evony’s (alleged) wrongdoings fall foul of the Chinese authorities, if only because they are giving China a bad name for their business practices. Keep on standing firm against Evony as well as digging more dirt on them up. Im more interested in what Evony do than who the people involved are, though.


  38. The facts here are very simple, Evony have boxed themselves into a corner because of their lies and they are desperate. This desperation manifests itself in their misuse of Western legal systems, their widespread censorship on the internet and their use of physical violence in China. Just as a reminder here are some of the Evony lies:

    1) The game Evony is not Chinese and has nothing to do with China.
    2) Evony employ 9 or less people in all of their companies worldwide.
    3) Evony has no association with gold farming and the WoWMine brand.
    4) The game Evony did not copy content from any other game.

    There are several more lies but just those 4 give you an idea how ridiculous their position is. Eric Lam was the proxy director of Super Continental, the American company behind marketing WoWMine in the West. His photographs show Evony under development in Guangzhou and that they had far more than 9 staff.

    But all this did was to reinforce what we already knew. You cannot believe anything Evony say. They are just as likely to lie as tell the truth. Most people who play the game or read their forum must realise this by now.

    Also I cannot believe that anyone still plays Evony in the West. It is their money that is paying for Evony’s behaviour. Anyone who gives Evony a single penny is contributing far more to the violence in China than I am.

    Finally I cannot believe that people in the West are prepared to work for Evony.


  39. I took the tme to read all of ‘Erics’ post…and all I got from it was paragraphs of WAAAAAAAA woe is me. Quite frankly I don’t beleive a bloody word of it, not do I give a toss. Associated yourself with third world shysters, rip off merchants and frauds and you deserve everything you get.

    Fair dinkum, the way he bitches and moans you’d think he was the one standing infront of a tank in Tianamen Square fer ***** sake.

    You sure he’s not a shiela?


  40. @SmaMan
    This is exactly what I was trying to point out, thats what I tried to get xBendystevex to understand! But I guess Im a bit to kind or my punchlines in english are a bit weak, due to the fact that Im from sweden.

    I want to thank you and the the others for making me feel as if Im not the only one feeling strongly about this.


  41. I havent read all of the posts so sorry if someone brushed on this already… but this is mainly for Roger and Steve whos comments standed out

    I think your all forgetting the fundamental point to his statement, maybe you missed it, its the very last line of the statement

    “I was not the owner of Evony.”

    Your still talking like “Evony this, Evony that” news flash gentlemen Evony and Eric Lam are not one and the same


  42. Wikipedia:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evony
    actually sums up the evony situation pretty good but needs to be updated soon. To me; the fact that Evony deletes and censors any connection with wowmine, the lawsuit and its discussion and continue to lie and suppress this is a clear indication that all or parts of it is true.
    In my eyes, a respectable and legit corporation would welcome discussion and dismis beyond doubt any accusations to its good name. Not treat this like the plaque, which like Evony continues to do.

    I dare anyone to become a member of evony’s forum and to discuss any of this, your posts will get deleted faster than it takes to deepfry chicken!


  43. To Eric Lam:

    Old Chinese proverb>

    Man who lay down with dogs gets up with fleas.


  44. One more thing ladies and gentemen.
    Eric Lam goes to great lenghts to explain his connection to Evony and especially concerning the fact that HE took the pictures that Bruce somehow came in possession of. He also explains that he’s a greedy man who are victim to harrasment, so what? He’s not a passive bystander as it might appear.
    Furthermore, whats the link between a western blog with pictures of working chinese businesmen and a subsequent police interrogation with the photo manager/cameraman?
    Could it have something to do with David Guo/Evony not wanting further truths coming to light?!?!?
    Bruce needed those pictures to defend himself agains the evony lawsuit and to dig deeper in this evony mess.


  45. @SmaMan
    That’s a fair enough response, and for my part I will apologise to you. You seem to be able to think for yourself and aren’t half as bad as some of the people here and clearly don’t deserve the level of sarcasm I aimed at you. So, my apologies. However, my point remains that whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation Eric Lam says himself he was questioned about Bruce’s blog. What i ‘m trying to suggest id that perhaps if he hadn’t been on it in the first place he wouldn’t have been questioned?. Also, arguing about the chinese police isn’t going to get us anywhere, they are one topic I think we can agree on.

    @Amadeus
    If you can’t understand why I said “HA HA HA HA….” then you should assume that that reply applies to you as well.

    @Bruce
    When you say you can’t believe people in the West would work for Evony, you aren’t trying to suggest I work for them are you? I assume that if you were going to make such a suggestion that you have proof of course?

    @SteveA
    Oh so it’s you that is the detective mastermind then. You’ve seen an unrelated bunch of people put an English letter in front of their names so I must be one of them? Bravo you cretin. As for your other post, I’ve already told you I don’t work for Evony. As you seem to be an American, perhaps you’d rather I just used very small words for you? Perhaps with pictures?


  46. #44 Roger

    The link Roger.. Is supposedly Evony chasing up David with legal action for being Bruces “spy” and feeding the photos.. Seriously please read the post before you spam the comments with rediculous questions/accusations


  47. @Dave
    Legal action or not, I find it strange that Eric should find himself questioned and harassed just because his pictures was posted on some western blog. And in the light of everything else that has happened I don’t think its rediculus to suggest that evony or David Guo has had something to do with it. Evony has already beaten up other ex-managers and Bruce has had legal letters handed to him very late in the evening, so now – I dont think its farstretched to suggest that.
    Remember, Evony has no morals. My bad, moral and ethics is a western thing which the chinese laugh about (source:ex-evony employer in letter to Bruce).

    Dave, what do you make of Eric’s questioning by the chinese police? What incitament do they have?


  48. Tough case Bruce. Eric shares a lot. I guess you have to bend the rules to make business work from China to the US.

    xbendystevex seems a waste of misinformation. Probably an evony rep. They must be paying a few to harass your site.

    Mookles. agreed but one I think Bruce can only fight one suspicious game at a time.

    Good Stuff. Keep digging!


  49. @xbendystevex

    Quote: What i ‘m trying to suggest id that perhaps if he hadn’t been on it in the first place he wouldn’t have been questioned?

    You are suggesting the obvious: Cause and Effect. What you don’t seem to understand are the basics about responsibility as western society understands it. Arguings about the chinese police is ABSOLUTELY on topic here.

    Repressing opinions is “business as usual” in China, probably accepted as such by a vast majority of chinese men and women. If my interpretation of Eric Lams statement is correct, he at least accepts it as such. This is how life goes in China: Mind your own business, keep a low profile and never, ever attract the spotlights of negativity on you – especially when some (chinese) politician might be, even remotely, involved.

    But the first step to eliminate any form of injustice is TO SPEAK OUT. That’s why freedom of speech is such a basic value in western society. In some cases it’s not even freedom (of speech), it’s an obligation (which sometimes requires a lot of courage).

    The ideal form of this freedom goes as far as allowing you to say even THE WRONG thing. Simply because the freedom – extended to everyone – would allow others to correct you by the same means, namely by speaking out.

    Was Bruce wrong mentioning Eric Lam in his blog? Maybe. I do not know for sure. I could believe Eric Lam (saying he didn’t found or own Evony (while still admiting having worked with the company who made Evony)) as I could believe Bruce. I have no “hard evidence” for or against one or the other as let’s say a copy of Eric Lams working contract. Nevertheless even if Bruce was wrong, he has a RIGHT to be wrong and can easily be corrected.

    If you accuse him because of this, then you are asking him to throw away a basic right because someone (Eric Lam) is held hostage by institutionalized terrorists.


  50. To begin this post, let me say that I’m totally unconnected with any of this, as I’ve never played Evony, or any online game like it, so I have no experience of the game or the company/people behind it, nor do I blindly follow Bruce (I find some of his articles interesting, and some of his points right, some wrong, and I disagree fiercely with his assertion that software piracy is literally the same as theft) or anyone else, so I think that I am an unbiased observer in this matters, since I have no preconceptions nor do I have anything to gain by taking either side.

    And I have to say that, as far as I can see, having read everything on the blog about Evony and the related events, that Bruce is certainly not responsible for anything that may or may not have happened to Eric Lam. Bruce has simply spoken what he believes to be the truth (and I’ve seen nothing to prove that any of it is not true), as is his right. I don’t know if Bruce was within his rights to publish all of the photos and texts and so on, but even if he was not (and I’ve seen no evidence to suggest that he was not) he is not responsible for what some paid thugs then do as a result. You might as well say that if someone in England gets mugged and goes to the police, then he deserves to be beaten up again by the mugger for reporting the first crime to the police.

    It’s the moral right of any individual anywhere to speak up when he sees, or thinks he sees, oppression or corruption. And if it’s not legall right to do so in a given country, then that country is not a humanitarian one.

    Bruce may or may not be right about Evony (and if he is wrong then not only are a lot of other people also wrong, but a *lot* of seemingly incontrovertible evidence is wrong too), but it should be down to only an impartial and well managed court room to decide. Paid thugs, threats, bullying tactics, etc, have no place in a moral world. And Bruce, whatever else he may or may not be, is in this instance a man firmly on the side of right.

    Although with the well known lack of morality of lawyers, the power that big money brings, China’s less than humanitarian systems, etc, being on the right is no guarantee at all of winning.

    But which ever way I look at it, I can’t see that Bruce has either behaved badly in this matter, or that he’s in any way at all responsible for the incident that Mr Lam describes.

    And as for xbendystevex, it’s obviously pointless trying to reason with him. I don’t know if he’s an Evony person or not, but he’s obviously not interested in facts, only in swaying other people’s views.

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