Is the GPU holding the PS3 back?

120

GTA IV, quite famously, was delayed from being a 2007 release to being a 2008 release because of problems Rockstar were having with the Playstation 3 version of the game. And now Codemasters admit that whilst the Microsoft Xbox 360 version of Grid runs at a solid 30 fps the Playstation 3 version doesn’t. These are just two of the latest of a long stream of disappointments with the comparative performance of the PS3. What is happening here?

The enormous power of a modern game console comes from two processors working together. The CPU (Central Processing Unit) and the GPU (Graphics Processing Unit). Console manufacturers have traditionally bought in CPUs from manufacturers such as Intel and IBM whilst GPUs have come from the likes of nVidia and ATI.

For the PS3 Sony wanted to have a technology advantage so they developed, in conjunction with Toshiba and IBM, the Cell processor. A clean sheet design with many innovations this took $400 million and four years to develop. The intention was to use two of these in the PS3, one as CPU and one as GPU. However at the last minute Sony realised that the Cell GPU wasn’t up to the job so they went to nVidia and bought their 7800GTX GPU. This gave them a number of disadvantages:

  • It wasn’t designed or optimised as a console GPU. It was designed and optimised as a PC GPU.
  • The whole architecture of the console was compromised by the last minute change.
  • The 7800GTX has less raw processing power than the Microsoft Xbox 360 GPU.

Microsoft had their fingers burnt by not owning the chips in the original Xbox, so for the 360 they decided that they wanted to own the rights to both processors. They sat down and co designed their GPU with ATI. By doing this they were able to optimise it’s capabilities for video game playing and also they were able to design it into the elegant system architecture of the Xbox 360. They also gave it a lot of raw power.

So although the Platstation 3 has a more powerful CPU than the Xbox 360 it seems to be less powerful as a gaming machine. And real world results with real games have so far proved this. As Richard Huddy of ATI said in an Edge magazine interview: “I think Xbox 360 technology is likely to outperform PlayStation 3 technology by a pretty healthy margin in the long run.” It looks like the GPU is holding the PS3 back.

Related stories

  1. Is it worth developing for PS3?
  2. Sony Playstation PS3 slim
  3. Are Sony successfully digging PS3 out of a hole?

120 Comments


  1. This is totally biased, the PS3 has amazing games, look at the graphics in uncharted and ratchet and clank


  2. hey brucie boy, stop with the flamebait comments, when games like Uncharted, MGS4, KZ2, Wipeout HD, and the soon to be revealed Resistance 2 are made and are superior to 360 games, then your statement automatically fails.


  3. No. It’s a myth perpetrated by fantrolls.

    There are PS3 games that look better than the 360 version. And that’s only using RSX. PS3 was designed so Cell could assist in graphics. The first game to use it is Killzone 2 which is being touted as the best looking game short of Crysis.


  4. To all comments above. To anyone having done development on both platforms, Bruce’s comments are obvious.
    The RSX is weak, get over it already.
    This doesn’t prevent talented studios making PS3 exclusive low polygon, low texture memory games that look very nice indeed.
    Outside of the console world, Blizzard is one of those studios who seem to know how to make 3 and half triangles look gorgeous.


  5. I think the problem isn’t writing something specifically for the PS3 but trying to port something that was developed on the 360.

    If you develop on the lowest powered chipset first and get that running smoothly at 30/60 fps then the ported version will be able to run at that speed, and then some.

    This is kind of proved by Burnout Paradise, which was developed for the PS3 first then ported to the 360. Both versions run quite happily at 60fps.


  6. The problem with this article is that it’s not looking at the games that stand out. You have a game like Mass Effect, but it comes to a crawl. You have Halo 3, but it’s far from 720p. You have Lost Odyssey, and it comes to a crawl. You have NG2, and it has framerate problems.

    You then compare probably the best looking MP game out there, CoD4, and they both run the same.

    Then you look at a 720p game like Uncharted that takes the cake so far without having to go into slideshow mode when there’s any kind of action on screen…


  7. How biased is this review, 360 and PS3 may be equals at this time, but they definitely do not outperform each other, and speaking of ports, it always depends on the developers to spend time on each system. DMC4, Burnout all run at 60 fps, and there are other games as well. If you have a game specifically for PS3 such as MGS4, KZ2, Ratchet, Uncharted, Heavenly Sword they have definitely shown improvement from the rival system in terms in sound as well as visuals. The Nvidia technology at the time of the ATI card being implemented in each gaming system, shows the 7800GTX definitely being the superior at that time. Do some research before just flame baiting.


  8. Sounds to me as another victory for xbox 360 and the ps3 boys are spitting there dummies out again


  9. It’s funny to me how often people say the 360 is better then the ps3 or the other way around. I own both systems and I play the games that are fun to play. The only reason I choose 360 over PS3 is because of the achievements.The PS3 is going to get this same basic concept pretty soon so the only reason I would have to choose between the two systems is what one has better proformance, and the past shows,that the 360 win most of the time… If or when the PS3 starts to show it is the system Sony want us to believe it is I will be glad to choose their version. Until then, Bring on the 360 games…


  10. Like the above comment the problem is when working a the same game on both platforms. There’s always one platform (360/P3) thats the lead platform then ported over to the rest. Most of the time the devs pick the 360 as the lead platform since a lot more find it easier to work on. Devs have said time and time again how much different the hardware is between the 360/PS3.

    The PS3 can still display some great games and so far their exlusive titles always edge out any third party game on the PS3. Uncharted is easily one of its best looking games and its right up there with anything else thats out now. The quality in Uncharted is amazing and I really don’t see the PS3 GPU holding it back.


  11. Bruce get with it it is not the hardware but the developer that is issue in performace of the games, when gaqmes are made (properly on the PS3 BOOM you have greatness, hence GT/ RATCHET/DRAKE ect ect,the 360 just can,t compare.


  12. Xbox 1 had more powerful hardware than PS2, but the PS2 had better games. If you want to be a graphics whore, game on a PC, but they beat anything on consoles hands-down.

    Get a console for the games, and don’t let idiots on the internet make you feel bad. Each console has its share of good exclusives, and you should get a console based on its games, not on any potential hardware advantage, since graphics do not equal a great game.


  13. what that i smell do i smell the bullshit factor, the gta 4 for ps3 and 360 both run at same fps, the ps3 graphics rules look at games like mgs4 (ps3 exculsive), killzone 2(ps3 exclusive), gt5 (ps3 exclusive), the getaway 3 (ps3 excusive) the list could go on and on with great ps3 games. anyway the point is the ps3 rules over the 360 for power and performance and graphics processing.


  14. Does this author even play games?! Because he obviously has no idea what he’s talking about. Rockstar said that problems on BOTH consoles led to the delay… the reason was speculation, as Rockstar never revealed the actual problems they were having. Secondly, virtually every review has confirmed that the PS3 version of GTA IV is the superior version; with a sharper image, less pop in, less load time, & slightly smoother play. Lastly, most games in the last seven months have either been equal on both consoles, or better on the PS3. This article is about 7-8 months too late to be taken seriously, horrible journalism.


  15. to all, 1. the ps3 has a totaly diffrent rendering system and dosen’t need as much prosesing power.


  16. It should also be noted that the best looking game on any of the consoles right now is on the PS3… Uncharted and MGS4 say “Hello, come take a look!” I don’t think we will see the 360 produce anything comparable until Gears 2 finally gets here.


  18. I agree with Darren, Burnout Paradise developers thought the PS3 platform was best and the game shows why. If they can do it, why not the rest?

    The real problem is developers going the CHEAP way of porting instead of building from ground up.

    Save your money for quality games and these offenders will automatically come in line or be Wiped Out HD for ever.


  19. By far,the months most biased,ignorant,and poorly written article on Video games.Congrats Bruce,you are well on your way to Kotaku status!

    “And real world results with real games have so far proved this.”

    *Sigh* What real world results are you talking about?Because as an owner of BOTH the Ps3 and the Xbox 360,I can EASILY tell you AND prove to you,that the best looking game across both platforms this generation is none other than Gran Turismo Prologue.There is literally NO game on the Xbox 360 that has graphics equivalent to and or surpassing GTP,and I’m more of a Forza fan.So who to believe;A marketer that has zero proof to back up his claims and assumptions,or a gamer who has both consoles,an HD screen,and the best looking titles on both?

    Here’s the irony of your flawed logic;Not only is the best looking game of this gen on Sony’s platform,but the NEXT best looking game after GT5P,is also a Sony exclusive.Take a guess at which game I’m talking about,I’ll even give you a hint;It rhymes with Departed.


  20. i own both systems and ps3 ovrall is more powerfull but yea the 360 has better online and more games but in the end ps3 is a better system ovrall , PS3’s rsx gpu is based prety much as 7800/7900GTX and the 360 gpu is more powerfull then the ATI 1900 PS3 CPU is 2x as powerfull then the 360 cpu , but both Nvidia and ATI give differnt looks of graphics ATI is more like PIPELINES AND VERTEX SHADERS while Nvidia cards are Transistors prety much and when u port a 360 game to a ps3 not good but if its just worked on ps3 or exclusive to ps3 it will look much better!


  21. Do you know anything about the ps3. If I remember correctly the ps3 was built similiarly to the ps2 with one and several different processors rather than leaving all the processing dedicated to one processor, and like the ps2 developers are only making ports of 360 games using only the gpu since there hasnt been any company besides 1st party and konami to really delve in the power in the playstation 3. for instance all ea games. why take the time and investment of programming a new game of the same game when you can just port it over. Next time get your story straight and do more research….Sony fanboy lol.


  22. Right so how do you explain uncharted and Gran Turismo 5: prologue? Now go on name me a game which has better graphics than them on a console?

    Now answer this, if the GPU is so weak how do you explain the little graphical powerhouse known as Killzone 2?

    Now it’s recomended that you research before you post, the RSX doesn’t process all the calculations, its job is shared with the Cell.


  23. Very biased review full of non truths. I have all 3 next gen systems and after playing the best that each has to offer at this time I can honestly say without no bias that the PS3 has the best all around games so far.

    Drakes, Ratchet, Heavenly, Warhawk, RFOM, GT, Motorstorm have been much better exclusives than the 360 has to offer. I enjoyed GOW, Halo, BioShock and Mass Effect but they seemed high def games of a previous genre.

    The PS3 games stated above were innovative. I have finished some of them over 5 times.

    With no bias, so far the PS3 is leading the 360 in overall excitement of this generation.


  24. The Xbox 360 GPU also happens to be responsible for the high failure rates on the whole hardware, with so much been generated by the GPU, the cheap ass soldering cant handle such temperatures. Its funny how you point out that Sony did some “last minute” changes to the hardware. Well Im glad it went that way, since thanks to those “Last Minute Changes” my PS3 after 18 months of heavy usage with Blu Rays, Music, Games, and DVD. Its still running as good as it was the very first time I purchased it. Im so glad I have a reliable system, do you feel that confident about your precious ATI GPU powered system?????


  25. It’s very interesting how the ps3 owners always talk about the future… They can play games that doesn’t even has a release date… Maybe it’s because they already finished Uncharted forty times and there is nothing else to do while wait for MG4…
    It’s very sad.


  26. nVidia has said themselves that the RSX was specificly made for the PS3. So the claim it was made for PC is a lie. Also it was always ment that the Cell processor and RSX was to work together.

    The developers are just having a hard to getting a hold on the new cell technology, has nothing to do with the RSX, and are having trouble learning how to get the cell and RSX to work together right which is why Sony is sending out helpers to the devs.

    So really this whole article is a massive lie.

    oh and its funny that Brucie left out that because of Micorsoft’s decision to make their own GPU that it caused billions of dollars in lose because of the RROD that was caused by a poor GPU.

    Brucie is a very obvious X-box fan.


  27. Like everyone says Its a whole different ball game from a multi platform game to an exclusives.

    I’ll admit looking at the PS3 and Xbox 360 on a Multi platform game, Xbox usually has an edge over certain aspects of its graphics e.g lighting, fps. Games like Grid and Madden are good examples. Madden ran at only 30fps on PS3. Grid looks slightly better on the Xbox ( This is based on a comparison Video I saw),but when it boils down to each consoles exclusives, PS3 Exclusives look better, had more time put in to them.

    When the PS3 first came out and just before it came out it was surrounded by all this negative buzz which In turn I believe made any Developer think that Xbox360 was going to win the Next Gen Fight. Therefore I reckon they spent more time on the Xbox Side of things when developing a multi platform game.

    At the end of the day like someone said before PC graphics will always be better, but at a hefty sum and even then when you get a good Graphics Card there is a better one coming out.

    Personally I think Consoles are better for people who want a good Gaming system that can’t be updated so it makes you feel like everyone else who owns one is the same as you which is true. The Only thing a console can seem different is how good a TV you have, The cable connecting it, How good your Sound system is and how good your internet connection is. I think in a few years PS3 will have equal or better graphics in its multi platform games.

    And next time round you can Guarantee that the Consoles will kick ass, PS4 when it releases will make sure it has the best of everything and a good entertainment box. It will Have XMB and Home and all the other things ready,because Sony will have learned it’s lesson this time round. It’s made a few mistakes, but Sony know these ones and expect them to be picked out.

    The Xbox540 or 720 or whatever you want to call it, Will address its RROD issue Hopefully, lose its fee’s and have everything ironed out that you hear about as well as them over charging for extras, it should all be built in ready to go no more fee’s.

    Anyways Enjoy your consoles. Don’t argue about them. I own a PS3 and I love it though I am sick of Delays and things Taking to long. I also want more Kick Ass Actions and promises to be kept. But I also want to obtain an Xbox 360 because that has some good asspect’s to it to.


  28. try getting mgs4 on a 360 disc ,uncharted,resistance 2,gt5,final fantasy etc forget specs for a minute what about space hd needs it dvd hasn,t got it.gt5 runs at 1080p,60fps no 360 title as done this yet,ng2 hd settings 545 n.g.s 1080p 60fps,bottom line cost to develop simple as.gears of war 2 exspect 545 to 620 tops in the hd department and will have same fate as ng2 pop ups galore and frame drops joker


  29. u see if there is an article stating the truth…everyone who is a ps3 fanboy jumps on it quick… tryn to stomp it out as though its a fire that was just started in their living room.. i mean cmon really… if ur like your console, keep it to yourself. Why are you trying to convince the rest of the world ps3 is better. Do you own stock in sony? Or are you employed by them? lol if not get a life….


  30. The problem is too obvious.. Anything that is Developed on 360 then ported to PS3 will never use the strengths of the PS3.. If developers ever began using the PS3 as the lead platform, then porting to Xbox 360 the same problem would occour.. they would have to tone down the graphics etc.. it is true that the PS3 is harder to program for, but it is also true that is is capable of turning more “flops”.. really at this point its up to the devs, but I can tell you NO MATTER WHAT.. which ever platform something is developed for, it will look best on that platform. Whatever platform it is ported to will always look like poo comparatively.. unless they spend MEGA time rewriting alost all of the code to be optmized.. and devs are cheap.. they wont do that..


  31. I think there are many nice looking games for both systems. For me there are two important titles on PS 3 only: Gran Turismo and MGS 4. And the only 360 title I’d like to play is coming to PS 3 too: Bioshock.
    Never thought about a 360 so far. Motorstorm, Uncharted, GT 5 Prologue and MGS 4 unmask this review as biased.


  32. This article tells it like it is. PS3 has been out 2 years and still gets out performed by 360. Sony lied to its fans and now the sony fanboys are crying bitter tears.


  33. Here is a test, put a kickass cpu in a computer, put in an average video card. Then put a lesser cpu in the computer and put in a kickass video card. You tell me which will provide the better gaming experience on average.


  34. This if for Jake , the games u named for the PS3 no offense but they sucked for u to say that these games are far better than the 360 is rediculous and im sony fan. but im not going to deny that the 360 has done a better job than sony at releasing there games and designing there console. What is the problem with sony and the development of there gamse and the cancelation of there games such as 8 days and the getaway which will never be developed.The games u named are good games no doubt and disrespect to thoses developers but they are not better than any of the 360 exclusives and to say that just means that love sony and find any excuse to put them on top.There is only one game that sony has that will legendary and that MGS4 and that game took almost five years to be completed.


  35. The article is correct. But teh cell…!!!

    lol Cell is good for playing games like CHESS.

    If Sony had stuck with their original vision maybe PS3 would be good…………


  36. A couple of years from now we’ll all look back on this and laugh as we play our PS3s.


  37. Metal Gear Solid 4 is the most graphically impressive game ever released on any console ever. This shows that even if the hardware isn’t optimized as it could be, clever programming can work around it. This will not even be a topic of conversation in another year or two when other developers finally stop being lazy (they won’t be able to ignore the PS3 install base any longer) and optimize their code for the system.


  38. how are the developers being lazy when cost millions to make a game and when a developer like niga theory create a game on the PS3 only they dont even break even and so now there future titles are multiplatform and the sony fan boys get all upset but no one supported there game and the game was good. Its amazing how we call developers lazy when the best decision is to save money as much as possible when making a game. And its obvious that its a smart decision to develop games on the 360 cause most developers are doin it


  39. The GPU isn’t holding back the PS3, its the Bluray drive. Look at how many AAA games requiring a harddrive install in gigs before you can start playing it.


  40. to one of the above comments, Getaway 3 was discontinued.. games on the ps3 look great, so i dont see it holding the system back.

    look both system look stellar, i mean be happy for both of them, you could be stuck with Wii graphics.


  41. Look at the exclusives, as it’s clear to see, that even with a 1 year headstart, and despite being more tricky to program for, the PS3 exclusives far outclass the 360 exclusives.

    Paper specs show the RSX and Xenos to be very close on spec, each one has it’s advantages and disadvantages, however the real power is how the PS3 can use the Cell AND the RSX together.

    Quote:The PS3 rendering architecture is designed to be used like this:

    The PPE functions as a controller for the entire system.

    The SPEs function as the heavy lifters for game logic, physics, and dynamic vertex work. They also are used for some pixel work.
    (I’ve been saying the exact same thing folks)

    The RSX functions as the main pixel painter, but it is also used for static geometry.

    A PS3 engine will start off with the PPE spawning off tasks to the SPEs and acting as the central control point for the engine. Static geometry is put onto the RSX. PPEs start cranking through tasks in parallel, usually setup to double buffer the data they operate on. A SPE will have its code uploaded, then it starts a DMA fetch for its initial data into to one half its local memory, and then it starts ping ponging back and forth: work through one half the local memory while the second half is being DMAed in, then swap. Ideally you have it setup so that you are effectively hiding almost all of your data loading latencies with the double buffer setup and chaining SPEs together where you do animation, deformation, physics, transformation, lighting all going on in parallel.

    The heavy vertex work being done, that data is then sent off to the RSX to be rasterized along with the resident static vertex data. So in effect the PS3’s Cell RSX combo is one giant unified rendering system. Depending on the nature of your game, your division of labor between the RSX and Cell will be different. It is entirely possible to do all vertex work on Cell or none. And the same for pixel painting.

    What the design of the PS3’s rendering architecture brings to developers is the unification of your physics, collision, dynamics, and geometry. On systems like desktop pcs or the 360 you have a division between your geometric data and collision/physics data with each of them sitting in GPU and CPU space respectively. The latest Factor 5 interview talks in general about this design of the PS3 and the Lair engine.

    The RSX does exactly what it was designed to do, have the pixel painting power to handle 1080p output. The extra vertex power is a nice addition. The RSX in isolation is not very interesting to talk about. Or is a comparison to standard desktop graphics cards or the Xenos.


  42. The points about the graphics processors in the article are valid, and very impressive things can be done with the PS3’s cell processor to assist the graphics rendering, but anyway my point is..

    Killzone 2, MGS4, GT5 DEMO, may well look impressive graphically, but developers aren’t going to spend 5 years and millions of moolah developing a game to take advantage of the PS3.

    Argue all you want fanboys about which console has the better hardware. It’s all about developing software at the end of the day, and the xbox 360 SDK offers so much more to a developer than the PS3 SDK. That will keep the xbox 360 ahead of the PS3.

    How come no-one talks about Haze anymore by the way?


  43. tell u what… why dont u donate about 15 mil to a company so that it looks good…. rather then spend the 1 mil to put it on 360 lol…


  44. ah come on guys…

    this is getting boring. why do sony fanboys claim that msg4 is the best looking game???? have you played it yet? are you even willing to look exactly at the graphics when you play it? if you do you will find a lot of low res textures etc (you can tell by the videos)… but do you care? no… you just love to play an awesome game with GOOD graphics! every game from the other side (xbox360) will be dissed for every graphical flaw it has without looking at the game itself!

    GET A LIFE! and get a girlfriend! GOSH!

    why do you thing development of killzone 2 etc etc takes so long? just because of fun? no it’s HARD to programm for the ps3! thats a fact and every company has HIGHER cost and a low install base (look at your software sales). they don’t wanna close their studios… you want that???? thats why a lot of developers go multiplatform!

    and it’s better for you customers because competition keeps the efforts of the developers high… or do you want a monopoly? (think of the hundreds of ****** games for the ps2 and now the wii)

    ENJOY YOUR CONSOLE AND YOUR GAMES! don’t be jealous just because!!!!

    but fact is that bluray is (beside of the low streaming speed and the often necessary installation) better for bigger an more epic games! sad microsoft made the mistake with the dvd… and be happy otherwise there would be few you could be “proud” of.

    but in the end i don’t care… too old to be biased 🙂 maybe i could help some fanboys of realising how you are controlled by the multinational companys

    hammerzeit


  45. “elegant system architecture of the Xbox 360” Lol!

    Bruce,you are a fanboy in disguise!!!


  46. You mean ATI was bashing the nVidia powered PS3? This is completely shocking to me…


  47. This statement is FALSE:

    “The intention was to use two of these in the PS3, one as CPU and one as GPU.”

    The original plan was to have the CELL work as both the CPU and the GPU, when the engineers realized the CELL fell short of this goal they when with a last minute change with the help of NVIDIA. The RSX is NOT the same GPU as the 7800GT’s but similar. In the initial dev kits 7800GT GPUs were used, but soon after NVIDIA designed the RSX. The biggest problem that developers have pointed to is the way the RAM is divided up between the CPU an GPU and all the problems that come with memory contraint and smaller bandwidth. Bruce, if you want people to take your “journalism” seriously you will have to actually read-up on the BS you are reporting.


  48. Metal Gear Solid 4 is not the best looking game (how’s that time machine working for you?) – it doesn’t even run in HD resolution – it’s not even 720p native.

    That aside – I think it’s about time someone wrote an article like this because it is truth.

    My PS3 is the most underwhelming thing in my entertainment center….


  49. You don’t know what you’re talking about sir. It doesn’t matter how much power the PS3 has if the developers don’t take advantage of the power. Uncharted seems to be a great looking game and others so you’re claim isn’t accurate.


  50. In the “long run” bruce, the Cell can compensate for the GPU short comings. The PS3 CPU is far more powerful than the 360’s CPU. The PS3’s problems stem from developers that are accustom to the PC dev friendliness of the 360. Formula 1 cars are faster than stockcars, but if you put a stockcar racer behind a F1 car… the results are less than ideal.

Comments are closed.